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	<title>Comments on: Email spam &#8211; call them out, or just chill out?</title>
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	<link>http://www.valleyprblog.com/hype/email-spam-call-them-out-or-just-chill-out/</link>
	<description>A (dry heated) group blog from Phoenix, Arizona on public relations, marketing and social media</description>
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		<title>By: Linda VandeVrede</title>
		<link>http://www.valleyprblog.com/hype/email-spam-call-them-out-or-just-chill-out/comment-page-1/#comment-11565</link>
		<dc:creator>Linda VandeVrede</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:44:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.valleyprblog.com/?p=2976#comment-11565</guid>
		<description>Thanks for all your comments, everyone, and especially Scott, who started it all :)  I appreciate that you read Valley PR Blog and commented.   Thank you.

In a perfect world, the jerks would recognize their jerky quality and own up to it and apologize, but I&#039;ll waste a lot of time if I count on that to happen with people who spam me.   The sting of the violent responses I received over the years is still with me, and that strengthened my resolve to take the high road and not perpetuate the nastiness.   I see value in leading by example, for myself, even if the spammer doesn&#039;t follow suit.

I&#039;m in a zenlike state these days.   When you&#039;re at the other end of the country, helping a frail, incontinent loved one with pull up diapers, things like spam seem very inconsequential in the overall scheme of things.   If there ever were a time for me to let things go and focus on priorities -- like my mother, right now -- this is it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for all your comments, everyone, and especially Scott, who started it all <img src='http://www.valleyprblog.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   I appreciate that you read Valley PR Blog and commented.   Thank you.</p>
<p>In a perfect world, the jerks would recognize their jerky quality and own up to it and apologize, but I&#8217;ll waste a lot of time if I count on that to happen with people who spam me.   The sting of the violent responses I received over the years is still with me, and that strengthened my resolve to take the high road and not perpetuate the nastiness.   I see value in leading by example, for myself, even if the spammer doesn&#8217;t follow suit.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m in a zenlike state these days.   When you&#8217;re at the other end of the country, helping a frail, incontinent loved one with pull up diapers, things like spam seem very inconsequential in the overall scheme of things.   If there ever were a time for me to let things go and focus on priorities &#8212; like my mother, right now &#8212; this is it.</p>
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		<title>By: harrietglynn</title>
		<link>http://www.valleyprblog.com/hype/email-spam-call-them-out-or-just-chill-out/comment-page-1/#comment-11558</link>
		<dc:creator>harrietglynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 22:12:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.valleyprblog.com/?p=2976#comment-11558</guid>
		<description>While working at an arts organization that gave out money to school districts and money to schools for performances and artist in residence program, I sent out an e-newsletter 3 times a YEAR. It only contained valuable information for them about how they could access money or book a performance for their students. Everytime I sent an email, I&#039;d get a least 5 to 10 people freaking out at me. These same people were certainly getting offers of p*nis enlargements &amp; Nigerian banking schemes and so on much more frequently then our piddly (and I might add, useful and legitimate) little newsletter!

Keep up the good work!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While working at an arts organization that gave out money to school districts and money to schools for performances and artist in residence program, I sent out an e-newsletter 3 times a YEAR. It only contained valuable information for them about how they could access money or book a performance for their students. Everytime I sent an email, I&#8217;d get a least 5 to 10 people freaking out at me. These same people were certainly getting offers of p*nis enlargements &amp; Nigerian banking schemes and so on much more frequently then our piddly (and I might add, useful and legitimate) little newsletter!</p>
<p>Keep up the good work!</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Van de Walle</title>
		<link>http://www.valleyprblog.com/hype/email-spam-call-them-out-or-just-chill-out/comment-page-1/#comment-11554</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Van de Walle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 19:44:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.valleyprblog.com/?p=2976#comment-11554</guid>
		<description>Linda,

Good perspective; we can all learn a lot from sitting in the other person&#039;s shoes.

I once emailed someone with whom I had a previous business relationship - a person of moderate stature in their industry. As opposed to asking me politely to take her name off of my list, she decided that a &quot;please stop spamming me&quot; blog post was in order.

Scott gave this guy the benefit of the doubt -- and then some -- BUT there&#039;s a lot to learn on both sides of the coin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Linda,</p>
<p>Good perspective; we can all learn a lot from sitting in the other person&#8217;s shoes.</p>
<p>I once emailed someone with whom I had a previous business relationship &#8211; a person of moderate stature in their industry. As opposed to asking me politely to take her name off of my list, she decided that a &#8220;please stop spamming me&#8221; blog post was in order.</p>
<p>Scott gave this guy the benefit of the doubt &#8212; and then some &#8212; BUT there&#8217;s a lot to learn on both sides of the coin.</p>
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		<title>By: Ted Shelton</title>
		<link>http://www.valleyprblog.com/hype/email-spam-call-them-out-or-just-chill-out/comment-page-1/#comment-11550</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted Shelton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 19:06:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.valleyprblog.com/?p=2976#comment-11550</guid>
		<description>As Dan says, I think your post misses the point.  Spam broadly is an unwanted message sent by an unknown person. Your examples may fall into a similar bucket as the ones that Scott mentioned.  But the big gap comes when those unwanted messages from an unknown person are sent out in BULK.

I am personally now getting 2-3 bulk mailings from PR people every week.  And I am not a journalist, I just write a blog.

Someone has gone out and created a mailing list for PR people -- perhaps selling it to them -- and the result is a ton of new unwanted mail from clueless PR people.

The point that you should make on your blog is DON&#039;T SEND BULK MAIL, especially not to purchased mailing lists.  This is spam, and is covered by the CAN SPAM act.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As Dan says, I think your post misses the point.  Spam broadly is an unwanted message sent by an unknown person. Your examples may fall into a similar bucket as the ones that Scott mentioned.  But the big gap comes when those unwanted messages from an unknown person are sent out in BULK.</p>
<p>I am personally now getting 2-3 bulk mailings from PR people every week.  And I am not a journalist, I just write a blog.</p>
<p>Someone has gone out and created a mailing list for PR people &#8212; perhaps selling it to them &#8212; and the result is a ton of new unwanted mail from clueless PR people.</p>
<p>The point that you should make on your blog is DON&#8217;T SEND BULK MAIL, especially not to purchased mailing lists.  This is spam, and is covered by the CAN SPAM act.</p>
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		<title>By: Confuzzed</title>
		<link>http://www.valleyprblog.com/hype/email-spam-call-them-out-or-just-chill-out/comment-page-1/#comment-11549</link>
		<dc:creator>Confuzzed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 19:03:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.valleyprblog.com/?p=2976#comment-11549</guid>
		<description>While I agree with your assesment in general about the proper communication (or lack thereof) between spamee and spammer, I do disagree about un-marketing being in any way wrong in this situation. The PR firm replied to an innocent request to not be spammed again with an ego centric e-mail so laden with hostility it made me uncomfortable to read. While this gu is so busy getting clients on Oprah, he should also take a course in social interaction on the web.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I agree with your assesment in general about the proper communication (or lack thereof) between spamee and spammer, I do disagree about un-marketing being in any way wrong in this situation. The PR firm replied to an innocent request to not be spammed again with an ego centric e-mail so laden with hostility it made me uncomfortable to read. While this gu is so busy getting clients on Oprah, he should also take a course in social interaction on the web.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Meray &#124; ctechsinc.com</title>
		<link>http://www.valleyprblog.com/hype/email-spam-call-them-out-or-just-chill-out/comment-page-1/#comment-11548</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Meray &#124; ctechsinc.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 18:12:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.valleyprblog.com/?p=2976#comment-11548</guid>
		<description>I think you&#039;ve completely missed the point of Scott&#039;s blog post.  This was not a single accidental email, this was a pattern of blasting out what amounted to spam, while not following proper commercial email CAN-SPAM practices.  Scott gave the guy several chances before escalating to hostility, unlike your examples, and only escalated to full-on humiliation mode when the spammer not only failed to apologize for his inability to remove him from the list on multiple occasions, but had the gall to play the &quot;I&#039;m a PR professional, so I know all about marketing&quot; card.  His continued emails about how important he is and his (supposed) speaking engagements just made for an even awesomer outing.

Kudos to Scott for calling that troll on his behavior.  I hope others who use emails for commercial purposes wise up and begin to follow proper opt-out procedures, and for pete&#039;s sake, don&#039;t toot your horn when you&#039;re being so stupid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;ve completely missed the point of Scott&#8217;s blog post.  This was not a single accidental email, this was a pattern of blasting out what amounted to spam, while not following proper commercial email CAN-SPAM practices.  Scott gave the guy several chances before escalating to hostility, unlike your examples, and only escalated to full-on humiliation mode when the spammer not only failed to apologize for his inability to remove him from the list on multiple occasions, but had the gall to play the &#8220;I&#8217;m a PR professional, so I know all about marketing&#8221; card.  His continued emails about how important he is and his (supposed) speaking engagements just made for an even awesomer outing.</p>
<p>Kudos to Scott for calling that troll on his behavior.  I hope others who use emails for commercial purposes wise up and begin to follow proper opt-out procedures, and for pete&#8217;s sake, don&#8217;t toot your horn when you&#8217;re being so stupid.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Cree</title>
		<link>http://www.valleyprblog.com/hype/email-spam-call-them-out-or-just-chill-out/comment-page-1/#comment-11547</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Cree</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 17:58:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.valleyprblog.com/?p=2976#comment-11547</guid>
		<description>Linda while both you and Scott were on the receiving end of serious rudeness, there are some striking differences.

In Scott&#039;s case the spammer seems to have a remarkably faulty understanding of what is legally considered spam for a PR professional. Even you defined those emails as spam. I would think it&#039;s kind of hard to excuse that kind of mistake by a PR as &quot;innocent&quot;. Ignorant (and arrogant) would be more accurate.

In your situations you were incorrectly and unfairly called a spammer because 1) a simple typo and 2) someone&#039;s faulty assumptions about you. Very different situations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Linda while both you and Scott were on the receiving end of serious rudeness, there are some striking differences.</p>
<p>In Scott&#8217;s case the spammer seems to have a remarkably faulty understanding of what is legally considered spam for a PR professional. Even you defined those emails as spam. I would think it&#8217;s kind of hard to excuse that kind of mistake by a PR as &#8220;innocent&#8221;. Ignorant (and arrogant) would be more accurate.</p>
<p>In your situations you were incorrectly and unfairly called a spammer because 1) a simple typo and 2) someone&#8217;s faulty assumptions about you. Very different situations.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Lovingood</title>
		<link>http://www.valleyprblog.com/hype/email-spam-call-them-out-or-just-chill-out/comment-page-1/#comment-11546</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Lovingood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 17:56:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.valleyprblog.com/?p=2976#comment-11546</guid>
		<description>Did you read the full story?  I won&#039;t defend Scott as he is a big boy and can do that himself.  But before you take the PR guys side, maybe you should read the full story.

Scott did respond politely to be removed from the list.  He continued to get them for months.  On his fourth request to remove him from the list, he asked to stop being spammed.  

Did Scott get his dander up?  Yea probably so.  Was it excessive?  I don&#039;t think so.  We allow too many people to simply ignore the rules of common sense.  If someone asks to be taken off your list... remove them.  Include an unsubscribe link in your email.  

Do you really want your information going to someone who really doesn&#039;t want to get it?  PR is public relations.  I think we focus too much on the Public part and not enough on the relations part.

We are building relations with potential clients, customers of our customers.  I would encourage everyone to think about their process of communication.  Does it build on the relationship or does it potentially create a damaging incident?

With the advancement of social networks, people are more inter connected than every before.  Issues like this can now be seen by many more people than before.

Do I always agree with Scott? No.  Though he does have a cool first name.  But in this case I think he was pretty dead on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did you read the full story?  I won&#8217;t defend Scott as he is a big boy and can do that himself.  But before you take the PR guys side, maybe you should read the full story.</p>
<p>Scott did respond politely to be removed from the list.  He continued to get them for months.  On his fourth request to remove him from the list, he asked to stop being spammed.  </p>
<p>Did Scott get his dander up?  Yea probably so.  Was it excessive?  I don&#8217;t think so.  We allow too many people to simply ignore the rules of common sense.  If someone asks to be taken off your list&#8230; remove them.  Include an unsubscribe link in your email.  </p>
<p>Do you really want your information going to someone who really doesn&#8217;t want to get it?  PR is public relations.  I think we focus too much on the Public part and not enough on the relations part.</p>
<p>We are building relations with potential clients, customers of our customers.  I would encourage everyone to think about their process of communication.  Does it build on the relationship or does it potentially create a damaging incident?</p>
<p>With the advancement of social networks, people are more inter connected than every before.  Issues like this can now be seen by many more people than before.</p>
<p>Do I always agree with Scott? No.  Though he does have a cool first name.  But in this case I think he was pretty dead on.</p>
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		<title>By: Jill Chongva</title>
		<link>http://www.valleyprblog.com/hype/email-spam-call-them-out-or-just-chill-out/comment-page-1/#comment-11545</link>
		<dc:creator>Jill Chongva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 17:54:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.valleyprblog.com/?p=2976#comment-11545</guid>
		<description>A &quot;professional&quot; in any industry has no right to spam you when you ask them to stop.  Claiming that you are the best thing since sliced bread in your profession (in this case, PR) is irrelevant - you spammed.  

I&#039;ve been called a bitch more than once for asking someone to stop spamming me.  Call me what you like, but when you spam me, I&#039;m going to call it what it is.

If you are the sender of the unwanted email, admit you erred, apologize and stop &quot;right-fighting&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A &#8220;professional&#8221; in any industry has no right to spam you when you ask them to stop.  Claiming that you are the best thing since sliced bread in your profession (in this case, PR) is irrelevant &#8211; you spammed.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been called a bitch more than once for asking someone to stop spamming me.  Call me what you like, but when you spam me, I&#8217;m going to call it what it is.</p>
<p>If you are the sender of the unwanted email, admit you erred, apologize and stop &#8220;right-fighting&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: DetailsDivas</title>
		<link>http://www.valleyprblog.com/hype/email-spam-call-them-out-or-just-chill-out/comment-page-1/#comment-11544</link>
		<dc:creator>DetailsDivas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 17:53:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.valleyprblog.com/?p=2976#comment-11544</guid>
		<description>While in most instances I would agree with you that this was an honest mistake and could be let go I would have to disagree on this one. I read Unmarketing&#039;s blog and the email exchange. After repeated requests to be removed which were ignored and then the egotistical email reply that finally did come back after months of trying to get off their mailing list - I&#039;d have to say the PR jerk got what he deserved.

I also have to say that I see where Scott is coming from. This PR guy ticked me off, not because of the spam mail and the ignoring of the repeated requests, but because of the really unethical and unprofessional way he handled himself and his client. That type of tossing around names and &quot;mine&#039;s bigger&quot; mentality gives the PR professionals a bad name. So I say Kudos to Scott for standing up to this guy - even though it made no difference whatsoever in how the jerk will do business in the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While in most instances I would agree with you that this was an honest mistake and could be let go I would have to disagree on this one. I read Unmarketing&#8217;s blog and the email exchange. After repeated requests to be removed which were ignored and then the egotistical email reply that finally did come back after months of trying to get off their mailing list &#8211; I&#8217;d have to say the PR jerk got what he deserved.</p>
<p>I also have to say that I see where Scott is coming from. This PR guy ticked me off, not because of the spam mail and the ignoring of the repeated requests, but because of the really unethical and unprofessional way he handled himself and his client. That type of tossing around names and &#8220;mine&#8217;s bigger&#8221; mentality gives the PR professionals a bad name. So I say Kudos to Scott for standing up to this guy &#8211; even though it made no difference whatsoever in how the jerk will do business in the future.</p>
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