What your male co-workers really think of you

By on November 4th, 2009 In Advice

When I went to work for a startup in 1999, I was in a bit of a shock going from a staid engineering software company to a hip dot com organization.   The clothing – oh yes, the clothing.   I wasn’t used to working with women who had tattoos on their lower backs, open-toed sexy shoes (gasp!), and revealing tops.    Dinosaur?  Yes.   I’ve stepped back from the ledge of puritanism.   But what does this all really say about the state of clothing now with women in business?

I checked with some marketing execs (males) here in Arizona, because that is often the title that PR specialists report into.   Here is their candid feedback.

#1 To answer your question, as much as I’d like to think it is not the same I’m inclined to believe that it really doesn’t matter whether it is a male or female.  If the attire is inappropriate to that environment, culture, social times or job position, etc. it has a negative effect on both how they are perceived and how they advance.  It is much harder for women to be neutral in their attire than men, however.  Men can basically wear the same thing every day and no one would say a thing generally.  If women did that, our business culture would suggest she is unconcerned for her career, appearance…by males AND females.  If that attire were provocative by either sex it would be perceived as unprofessional and possibly immature.  I would be hard pressed to actually describe to you what a man would have to wear in a business climate that would be construed as provocative….but maybe you can. Sadly, as much as we would like to believe it’s not true, there is a double standard for how one is perceived by their choice of attire.

#2 I think the biggest challenge that younger women have is overcoming the examples of “professional business dress” that are displayed in our popular culture.  They need to always remember that the majority of the roles they see portrayed on screens and posters as “business women” are purposefully designed to visually attract a specific viewing demographic – typically male, 18-49.  Expert costume designers are brought in to dress these actresses in a way that the demographic interprets as both businesslike and sexually appealing.  If young women dress in the workplace the same way these actresses are dressed, they will be seen by their male counterparts as sexual objects first and business professionals second.  (It is especially disappointing when a woman in “marketing” can’t see this – makes me wonder if she really has marketing talents when she can’t properly market herself to the ends she desires). I know it is challenging, but I have seen professional women that dress very stylishly – without showing cleavage or thighs, and without ultra-tight, form-fitting shirts, sweaters, and pants.  In my experience, these types of women are seen as business professionals first, beautiful women second, and sexual objects third.  My advice is to actively seek out  real world examples of successful business women that dress stylishly and emulate them.  Chances are good you will rarely if ever see them in something that is sexually provocative. An old adage teaches:  “Women attract the type of men they dress for.”  If a young female professional woman wants to get noticed by the true business leaders in her organization, male or female, she should dress smartly and let her work speak for herself, not her cleavage or hemline.

It’s a hard balance to pull off, but I agree that stylish, without being provocative, is the name of the game in business.   Somewhere in between the Puritanical, dark garb of the east coast and the laid-back attire of the west coast.    Hmm, I wonder what women in Missouri wear?

Comments

Amanda Blum Says:
November 4th, 2009 at 8:42 am

“business professionals first, beautiful women second, and sexual objects third.”

I love that two of the three completely objectify the woman in question.

“Women attract the type of men they dress for.”

This makes me want to punch someone. It stands to reason that women are not always dressing simply to attract someone, but to please themselves. But it goes to my point, which is this:

Point in fact: women are objectified regardless of their dress. There are simply too many factors and dress is but one and few of the factors lay at the hands of other women.

While I don’t encourage women to slut it up for the boardroom, let’s at least acknowledge that dressing as they like allows them to regain the power of their sexuality rather than surrendering it to some marginalizing man on the other end of the table.

I’m FAR from a feminist, but as humans we sit in constant judgment of each other and unlike men, women’s first hit occurs before they utter a word, make a suggestion, etc. They’re not sexy enough, not pretty enough, too pretty, too sexy… its unwinnable. And if you think I’m being unfair, ask either of the Clinton women.

Kristen Escovedo Says:
November 4th, 2009 at 9:11 am

Good post.

If I would have read this at 24 when I was just entering my first corporate job, I’m sure I would have been the first to defend my right to wear my short pink skirts. I was the youngest administrator on the executive team, and the only female. My wardrobe was that of a 24 year old, who (I can recall fondly) was 130 pounds and quite nice to look at.

The thing is, I didn’t stay 24. As I fought to be seen as a professional, my age, not my sex, seemed to be my biggest hurdle. It wasn’t that I dressed like an attractive wwoman, it was that I dressed like a kid in college.

I’ve heard the quote a little different – dress for the job you want – because when I go to work I’m not trying to catch a man, I’m trying to earn respect. And yes. ladies. like it or not, what you wear affects that; with both the men and women you work with. Women judge other women much more harshly then men do.

I don’t think it applies only to women, but it is more prominant. It’s like anything else in business, we can take the information and utilize it, whether we agree with it or not, or ignore it and hope for the best.

Rosa Says:
November 4th, 2009 at 9:34 am

I thought answer #2 was pretty good, and I :am: something of a feminist (equality for all, not necessarily horning in on men’s clubs). I think he’s got a good grasp of what the reality is for women in the workplace.
Amanda, I agree that we do sit in constant judgment of each other, especially women to women. But I don’t think regaining our “power of sexuality” is something to strive for in the workplace. I don’t think men do that …

Amanda Says:
November 4th, 2009 at 9:47 am

You don’t think men do what? Look, if we’re going to be judged regardless of how we dress, and fail at least a portion of the men judging us, why not just dress as you please anyways? Impress yourself. If you’d LIKE to dress professionally, great. If not, don’t.

That this is even a CONVERSATION proves that women are objectified. Otherwise, no one would care.

Jen Zingsheim Says:
November 4th, 2009 at 11:58 am

Having lived in Missouri, I’ll add my .02 on that–I think there’s a reason one of Talbot’s largest mall footprints in the country is in St. Louis. Most of the women I worked with wore fairly conservative but up to date clothing for work. This was ages ago though (mid-90s-2001).

The reason that this is a conversation we are having, in my opinion, has a lot to do with the popular culture/TV component, I think. I used to laugh when seeing the outfits Ally McBeal wore to work, no one dressed that way at work. That’s not the case anymore. This isn’t an issue at the office I work in, but when traveling, some of the outfits I see on women makes me wonder what kind of office they work in, or why they think it’s appropriate to wear a skirt that is shorter than most shorts to the office. It’s a matter of getting taken seriously, I suppose.

Also, the puritanical dark garb of the east coast is functional (says the woman wearing a black turtleneck and gray slacks). It’s cold here, and in a few weeks, dark colors will hide the (sigh) snowy slush we get on our clothes…

Interesting post…

Marketing $ociologist Says:
November 4th, 2009 at 12:25 pm

As a man, I’ll throw my 2 cents in. Don’t know about most men, but I am as critical of other men as women are of other women. So critical, I once wrote a Republic article that opened, “The ugliest thing in the world has to be a guy in shorts.”

As they repeatedly say on “Two and a Half Men,” time to go for the big boy pants instead of shorts. A large part of companies I visit men dress like they work a garbage truck – and these are the company chiefs. Yuk.

Thankfully since I wrote the Republic article, fashion seems to have come back to the Scottsdale mall that inspired my article.

Leave with this quote and the article link, “As a reporter, I’ve seen accidents where people where missing body parts, wounds from guns that were horrendous, but nothing prepared me for the sights of all these men wearing shorts.”
http://republicarticles.blogspot.com/2009/03/cant-get-date-guys-look-at-man-in.html

Linda VandeVrede Says:
November 4th, 2009 at 12:36 pm

Jen – Talbots is a great example of classy, stylish clothes. It’s where I have bought most of my business clothes the last few years. The big difference in me from when I lived in Boston vs. here is that I still dress conservatively, but I choose brighter colors here, and less “functional” shoes – traipsing thru the Boston snow, sleet and road salt really did damage to anything but the most serviceable footwear.
Amanda – I like to work with both women and men who dress stylishly. That’s my pet peeve. If someone is dressed like a garbageman or a Hooters waitress, it makes ME feel out of place – selfish? Maybe. It also makes me think less of them. Prejudiced? Maybe. As PR people, I think we should be held to a different standard, since we’re representing clients. It’s like being head chef at the cooking school – you need to pass muster. Or pass the mustard.

Len Gutman Says:
November 4th, 2009 at 3:27 pm

Amanda is right…women are going to be judged no matter how they dress. Dress provocatively and we’re going to pay more attention to you…but take you less seriously. Dress dull and we’re going to think you’re dull. So you might as well wear what you want.

We’re shallow. It’s our nature. We really haven’t come very far as a gender since cave man days.

And by the way, my wife says I still look pretty good in shorts!

Amanda Says:
November 4th, 2009 at 3:42 pm

could we just concentrate on the first part?

“amanda is right”.

after that it was started to sound a little like charlie brown’s parents.

Pat Elliott Says:
November 4th, 2009 at 7:56 pm

The photo for this post is from a movie that came out nearly 30 years ago. We’re in a time where you may rarely see your employer or a client in person because you work remotely most of the time. Who needs to worry about what a co-worker thinks of what you wear, male or female? The virtual world is removing barriers not only for women but also for people of color, disabled workers and others. Now that’s something to talk about.

Linda VandeVrede Says:
November 5th, 2009 at 7:14 pm

Pat – you gotta meet with clients face to face sometime! If you have a tattoo, please hide it from me. :)

Pat Elliott Says:
November 6th, 2009 at 9:19 am

Linda – When you have a wide variety of clients you invest in temporary tattoos. :-)

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